Interview with Desmond Ravenstone

By Scarlet Apron*
Author, educator, worship coordinator, kinkster: now there’s an eye-opening resume. Meet Desmond Ravenstone, one man devoted to making the word flesh and then giving it a good slap.  With his works, The Principled Libertine, a common sense guide to sexual deviance everyone can understand; Ravishment: The Dark Side of Erotic Fantasy, a manual on the mores and means behind consensual, non-consensual fantasy exploration, and A Kinkster’s Guide to Dealing with Law Enforcement, a must-read for anyone engaging in adult play, Ravenstone hopes to change the climate of prejudice against minority sexual practices, such as polyamory and BDSM, as well as empower practitioners. His mission, in part, is to untie the bonds that separate mind and body from one’s darkest, unthinkable desires.  A handsome, well-spoken poster boy for play rape, if ever there was one, we caught up with him in the basement of the Arlington Street Church in Boston. 

What was the Ravenstone household like growing up?
We were not very religious.  One parent was a disenchanted Protestant, the other was a disenchanted Jew, so I like to say my brother and I grew up “disenchanted.”  I eventually found my way into Unitarian Universalism.

Early inkling of kink?
I don’t really have a conscious memory about anything involving kink. I just sort of followed along, going through the motions, hoping that it would feel right and it didn’t quite. It was rather late in life when I hooked up with a woman for a summer romance and we started to do role playing. She broached the subject. That’s when the flood gates opened and it led to a transformation and the wider world of BDSM and polyamory.

What brought you to the concept of Ravishment?
I was looking for more information about it, but there wasn’t much, just bits and pieces all over the web and it wasn’t really discussed very thoroughly. So, I thought I’d try to put it together and explain it as best as I can, from my own perspective and from the perspective of many others. And that’s also why I use the word “ravishment.” That term was something that was just starting to emerge, and it really conveys more fully what this is about. It’s not just about consensually playing a scene about non-consent but about why it’s being done and how, the passion and the intensity.

What kind of heat do you take?
From within the (BDSM) community, it’s a lot like some gay and lesbian people’s criticism of the leather community: you’re too flamboyant. This will make us look bad. Ironically, people from the outside ask better questions about it. There are ways of conveying the most controversial topics in a way that outsiders can understand. Instead of worrying about whether something is a pubic relations problem, perhaps we should focus on how to communicate about what we do -in a way- that people can understand. One small way I do this is that I offer to show vanilla folks how to crack a single-tail. And when they do, and that flash comes in their eyes of: “Oh wow, I really did!” – the walls crumble after that.

Why are people so disturbed by this?
I think because we’ve been bombarded with the idea that sexuality is something so different and so separate from everything else in our lives that we have to handle it with kid gloves and when we start handling it with leather gloves and vampire gloves, you can’t separate your erotic self from your integral self. And if that integral part of you, that part that wants to explore desires that would be considered intense and shadowy, then that needs to be explored. Just as if somebody isn’t satisfied with only hotdogs and hamburgers and wants a more exotic fair, who is society to say you can’t go to a Thai restaurant?

What led to A Kinkster’s Guide?
I’ve been in situations where you can talk your way out of a police officer giving you a ticket, if you know how to handle yourself. To enforce the law, they have to do a lot of paper work and if you carry yourself off and behave in a respectful way and give the impression that they don’t have to do the paper work, then you reduce the chances that they’re going to arrest you.  They will probably let you off with a warning. That’s a skill that people need in this community until such time as we can change the laws to say that what we people do in privacy is none of their business. We’re not teaching people as well as we should around here. When I visited communities in Baltimore, Dallas and Maine to teach classes, I found that they were doing that – so why not here, too? 

What’s the premise behind The Principled Libertine?
That was a small book based on the radical question: if you treated sexual ethics, the same as other ethics, what would the conclusions be?   For example, when we think about business ethics, you don’t think of it as black and white and adhering to strict rules.  We do have rules, but there is flexibility in how we apply them. Much of society is caught a couple of steps behind when dealing with sexuality, especially when that sexuality is considered unconventional – what’s called “alternative sexuality” or “alt-sex”. And how then, do we rethink all the specific questions about BDSM and polyamory in such a way that they are more in line with how we think about ethics in every other field of life? It goes back to the idea that the erotic self is part and parcel with the whole self. It’s not something that we separate and put on a shelf someplace. That it is integral to our personality, to our identity, to what we do and feel. 

You’re a service top, what does that mean?
I like to think of it as the kinksters’ answer to (TV’s) Mr. Roarke on Fantasy Island. You come to me with a particular desire; I work in terms of how to fulfill it. It is a style of being a top. I entered ravishment with the idea that the ravishees’ desire is the focus of the scene. I can also engage in dominance where there’s more focus on me being a mentor. I enjoy scenes that help someone bring their desires to fruition, and in the process, we both learn from that experience.

Who are your clients?
I’ve counseled people who are extremely liberal and radical to one couple who were Mormons. It goes all over the place, but there is one basic idea: that there’s an apprehension that comes from the paradox. You have a fantasy where there’s the appearance that there’s no consent, and yet you want to do this with assured consent. How do you balance the two? That’s the tricky part. I point out that not all fantasies emerge from the same center of desire, some are about the physical, others are about wanting to be desired so much that the other person loses all reason. There are many different themes and fantasies and exploring that is essential to making sure that the fantasy itself, when you act it out, is as close to fulfilling the desire and passion that you have. That demands a good connection with ones’ partner and with oneself. There have been times I’ve told a couple ‘I don’t think this is a good idea to act this out, you’re not at that stage’ or ‘I’m not sure, you still have to work that out.’ If you are going to work it out, it needs to be talked, felt and thought through, so that when it’s actually done, it’s done in the spirit where you don’t have to worry too much that you’re going to be hurt, you’ve done everything to minimize that.

How are you compensated for your counseling? 
If it's local, buy me a nice steak dinner. For workshops where I travel, I ask for transport expenses, lodging and a stipend - fairly flexible. I do a good deal over the phone or email, though, and those are simple Q & A.

Are people beating a path to your door to be ravished? 
It comes and goes, and I certainly don't say "yes" to every request. Folks hear about me from friends, online discussion, or my books. There are also online groups devoted to the topic, like RavNet.

After-the-thrashing comments?
It varies. Some have gotten it out of their system. For others, they’re hooked and need more. Others, it’s part of their repertoire. One thing I’ve learned from couples and ménages is that the process of negotiating, of asking questions, of exploring one another’s sexuality and desires is what they find invaluable. 

How and why did you come out at church?
For me, it was part of the process that I went formally to the staff and some leaders and said ‘I want you to think carefully about what you’re getting yourselves into by allowing me to be a member.’ The response was: We accept people as they are and we’ll come to that question when we come to it. It’s still an ongoing process, but for Kim Crawford Harvie, the senior minister here, knowing I’m kinky and polyamorous, to welcome me as worship coordinator, as someone who talks about transformation and growing this congregation, that sends a very positive signal to the alt-sex community that Yes! you can link your sexuality with your spirituality. It also sends a signal to the wider community asking:What is more important, if you are different sexually or whether you are caring and considerate and respectful, whether it’s vanilla or with a whip?

Biggest misconception behind polyamory?
That it’s just undisciplined libido. I have not met one person seriously into poly who just feels like they can wily nily have a fling with whomever. They are serious about their partners and what spirit they engage them in. Poly is about recognizing that love takes many forms, many ways of relating, rather than prescribe this one avenue that you have to have one person who is your sex partner/best friend/confident. It’s a matter of how do we find ways of relating that don’t burden one person and at the same time allowing the flexibility that maybe that’s good for some people. There is a great deal of discipline and care and thought and respect that goes in to it. People have to find what gives them bliss and joy and fulfillment, not through a cookie cutter program, but by asking challenging questions. That is the gift that polyamory, BDSM and the alt-sex community generally gives to spiritual communities like Arlington Street church and to the wider community.

Hobbies?
Big tea gourmet, I like blending my own tea, my personal blend is lavender scented, Yunnan based blend, so it’s a strong tea with an actual sweetness to it. I like restaurant hopping, trying out new places. I like to keep abreast of politics and current events.

You must know some good wrestling moves.
When you’re dealing with ravishment, you’re dealing with a great deal of spontaneity, not so much a particular move as keeping in mind your center of gravity and the other person’s center of gravity. When you do that, you can figure out on your feet how to gain the upper hand in a position and, at the same time, do so without breaking any bones or causing serious injury.

 Role models?  Heroes? Mentors?
Wow, where do I begin! Frederick Douglass, John Stuart Mill and Harriet Taylor. James Campbell, theologians James Nelson and Virginia Ramey Mollenkott. Robert Dante, Midori, Charles Moser. To some extent, David Brudnoy, even though I didn’t agree with much of his politics, he challenged everyone to think more. If I ran a radio talk show – boy, would I love that opportunity! – I’d run it the way he did, both welcoming and challenging.

CD in your CD player?
I love hopping around to Celtic music. It speaks to the blood, I’m part Scot and part Welsh.

Book on your nightstand?
I’ve been doing research into religion, so one of the books is Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman. And I am always looking for really good smut, high-quality erotica.

Food you can be seduced with?
Fresh fruit drizzled with dark chocolate. 

Learn more about Desmond Ravenstone at http://www.myspace.com/desmond_ravenstone
*Contact Scarlet Apron with fetish news and events at scarletapron@yahoo.com