We're going to need to tarnish their brand, reduce their political power some, if we're ever going to have any chance of real reform in Washington. I mean the Keystone fight is ongoing. It's an important fight, because the tar sands are so huge and this is such a unique opportunity to keep oil in the ground. But one of the things it taught us is we're really not going to be able to fight climate change one pipeline at a time. There's just too many pipelines and oil wells and coal mines. So we have to do harder things, too.

OUR SISTER PUBLICATION IN BOSTON,THE PHOENIX, RAN A STORY BY WEN STEPHENSON RECENTLY ON THE MEDIA'S FAILURE TO REPORT ON CLIMATE CHANGE AS A CRISIS. ANY HOPE OF THE MEDIA SHIFTING OR ARE YOU SKEPTICAL? For 25 years, the media has done a terrible job on this. The thing that changed it a little bit was a major hurricane that hit the media capital of the world. At least for a little while, it blew up. The next week, Businessweek's cover was "It's Global Warming, Stupid."

But, you know, we seem to be back to business as usual — deeply obsessed over what will happen to the Social Security Trust Fund in 2040, but really not all that obsessed about what kind of planet the Social Security Trust Fund will be on.

SO WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO CHANGE THE DYNAMIC? It takes movements, that's what makes things change. Nothing else. Power and wealth do not just listen to scientific studies. Power listens to power. We're not going to outspend the fossil fuel industry, so we're going to need our own currencies and those are the currencies of movement: passion, spirit, creativity, sometimes we spend our bodies.

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