EARLIER YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT JAZZ, AND HOW THE EXCITEMENT AND INNOVATION OF THE GENRE GOT LEACHED OUT OVER THE DECADES OF ITS EXISTENCE UNTIL YOU WERE LEFT WITH, I GUESS, WYNTON MARSALIS AND KENNY G ONCE IT HAD GONE MAINSTREAM AND SOUGHT OUT RESPECTABILITY. BUT I FEEL LIKE NOW NEW GENRES OR SUBGENRES SPREAD VERY QUICKLY, ARE PICKED UP ON ALMOST INSTANTLY, AND THEN IT'S ALMOST LIKE PEOPLE ARE "OVER" THEM BEFORE THEY GET GOING. LIKE, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE "WITCH HOUSE," FOR INSTANCE. I FEEL LIKE YOU SEE THIS OVER AND OVER; IS THIS KIND OF A SYMPTOM OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?

Yeah, yeah: I mean, most of these longer-lasting subcultures, many of which are still with us, had a lengthy gestation period. Hip-hop is a good example: there were a bunch of years where nobody knew it was going on, it was going on in the Bronx and it was formulating itself. There was slang, graffiti, dances, techniques having to do with scratching. And once the components were assembled, it lasts a long time and mutates and leaves spores all over the world: there are Indonesian rappers and things like that. The same thing happened with reggae: for a long time, no one knew what was going on with that either. But now there's no gestation period: things just get out there.

Like have you heard of this thing called "seapunk"? It seems like this spoof on witch house, but it managed to get covered in the New York Times. But you can tell that they didn't know whether it was real or not. The same thing happened when theNew York Times was fooled about the grunge lexicon. I'm not sure if the Times knew that there was a sort of tenuousness there, or if it was an Internet phantasm or figment.

YEAH — TO ME, ALL THIS STUFF KIND OF REMINDS ME, IN A WEIRD WAY, OF THE MANNER IN WHICH PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN PETRO-COLLAPSE TALK ABOUT PEAK OIL: THAT WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF FOSSIL FUELS, AND IT'S BECAUSE FOSSIL FUELS WERE CREATED OVER MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF YEARS BY THE GRADUAL DECAY OF LIVING MATTER, WHICH OVER THIS INSANELY LONG PERIOD OF TIME FORMED POCKETS OF STORED ENERGY, AND THAT IN THE LAST 150 YEARS WE'VE JUST KIND OF POKED A STRAW IN THE GROUND AND WE'RE DEPLETING THIS RESOURCE, AND THERE ISN'T TIME FOR US TO MAKE MORE OF THIS MATTER, BECAUSE IT TAKES SO LONG FOR FOSSIL FUELS TO NATURALLY OCCUR.

AND IN A WEIRD WAY, IT'S LIKE WE'RE DOING THE SAME THING WITH POP CULTURE: THE STAGE WAS SET OVER THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF CIVILIZATION AND CULTURE FOR THIS EXPLOSION OF ENERGY AND INNOVATION AND CREATIVITY, AND ALL THESE ACTS AND MUSICAL DEVICES AND SONGS AND PERSONALITIES AND IDEAS SPRUNG FORTH LIKE A GUSHING GEYSER OVER THE FIRST HANDFUL OF DECADES OF MODERN POP AND ROCK MUSIC CULTURE — AND THEN WE FIND OUT NOW THAT WE'RE DEPLETING THIS RESOURCE TOO QUICKLY AND VORACIOUSLY. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? LIKE INSTEAD OF OIL, IT'S THE STONES, AND CHARLIE PARKER, AND PRINCE, OR WHATEVER, AND WE'RE JUST SIPPING ON IT ENDLESSLY!

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