Saturday, December 22, 2007

You know what is even more offensive is your desire to sully a dead man’s fine civil rights legacy. All in pursuit of a “gotcha” moment that isn’t very important in the final analysis.

George Romney was obviously, as reported by many covering this story, pretty involved with the civil rights movement. A brave thing to do in the sixties.

Who cares if Mitt was speaking literally or figuratively about his dad. Mitt Romney has every right to be proud of his father’s record.

Heck, in all this reporting, it’s been revealed that MLK thought George Romney would be a good POTUS. Wow that’s an amazing endorsement! It would seem that MLK had the ability to see George Romney’s good character and didn’t let George’s religion and it’s views on blacks discourage him from seeing a supporter in the cause.

With all of the crap that Mitt has had to take about his religion from newspaper folks and other assorted religious intolerants, we should all take a lesson from Martin Luther King.

I wish journalists were just as motivated in digger deeper into Bill Clinton's whopper about Rosa Parks. He claimed at her funeral that when he was 9 years old, he was motivated by Rosa Parks to sit in the back of his segregated bus. That's a momentous moment in the life of an Arkansas boy. Funny, that story doesn't even appear in his autobiography. Why don't you check that out?

I hope Mitt Romney retracts his Grosse Pointe story if it's false but it's nice to learn that his dad - as governor - was a player in Civil Rights Movement.

What a powerful defense of decency and truth.

It's sad that Mitt feels the need to embellish his father's courageous legacy. It's sadder still that he—who wants to "double Guantanamo" and "out-Tancredo Tancredo," who daily compromises principle for political gain—falls so short of it. Mitt's shameless, strategic lust for torture and division would mortify both his father and MLK.

1. I agree that these eyewitnesses are almost surely not reliable.

2. If the topic is "When A Claim Becomes Offensive", can we trun to this, from the Dec 21 "Was it all a dream" Bernstein piece:

<i>Nor did Mitt Romney ever previously claim that this took place, until long after his father passed away in 1995 — not even when defending accusations of the Mormon church’s discriminatory past during his 1994 Senate campaign.</i>

Actually, Mitt made a similar claim in 1978, as reported by the Boston Globe on Dec 21:

<i>Mitt Romney went a step further in a 1978 interview with the Boston Herald. Talking about the Mormon Church and racial discrimination, he said: "My father and I marched with Martin Luther King Jr. through the streets of Detroit."</i>

They admitted to the paper that this is not true, although they are not quoted as saying "Mitt's recollection of marching with King is no longer operative."

sheryl:

You are using typical Bill Clinton tactics here by factually stating that George Romney never marched with Martin Luther King, Jr. is sullying his civil rights record. Ever hear of Booker T. Washington? Sojourner Truth? Frederick Douglass? Harriett Beecher Stowe? For someone that is so knowledgeable and concerned about civil rights, you should. Well, did they march with Martin Luther King, Jr.? No, they could not have, because they, er, lived in the 19th century and as such were long dead before any King march took place. Is pointing that out sullying their civil rights record? Since Washington, Truth, Douglass, and Beecher Stowe WERE GIANTS OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT OF COURSE NOT!

You know who said so himself? Martin Luther King, Jr. In his Nobel Prize acceptance speech, he stated that he was unworthy of the award, but was accepting it on behalf of the many people that advocated civil rights. That meant, of course, PEOPLE THAT NEVER MARCHED WITH HIM.

People, admit that your guy lied and move on. And while you are doing that, admit that he is just another politician and that politicians lie all the time. Romney's claim of him and/or his father having marched with MLK is no different from Bill Cinton's Rosa Parks story, or Ronald Reagan's claim of having liberated Holocaust survivors as a soldier in World War II (hard to do when he never fought in World War II at all ... the media actually went quite easy on Reagan for uttering that for reasons that will never be known other than thinking that perhaps in his advanced age Reagan was confusing reality with movie roles that he might have played; of course Romney and Clinton and Huckabee for that matter do not have similar excuses at their disposal).

. than in any comparable period in Michigan's history," Romney asserts. When the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King marched in Detroit three years ago, Romney marched with him. He is proud that he helped . . . George Romney: Holy and hopeful by William Vincent Shannon 55 William v . . .

http://www.harpers.org/search?q=romney+martin+luther+king+march+



Romney Campaign on George Romney and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

· In 1963, George Romney did participate in Martin Luther King Jr.’s “Freedom Marches” in Grosse Pointe. That was written about by Stephen Hess and David Broder in their 1967 book.

· George Romney had a long record of supporting Martin Luther King, Jr. He attended his funeral in 1968 and believed his death was “a great national tragedy.”

GOV. GEORGE ROMNEY AND DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.

FACT: In The Summer Of 1963, Governor Romney Participated In Martin Luther King Jr.’s “Freedom Marches” In Grosse Pointe, Michigan.

http://thepage.time.com/romney-campaign-on-george-romney-and-dr-martin-luther-king-jr/

This whole story just proves how petty and nit picking the liberal media can be when trying to bring somebody down. They've been doing it to Bush for 7 years.When they report on the economy,no matter how good the news is the find a negative comment to dilute it. "The economy created 300,000 jobs this quarter but it was less than expected". What about Hillary Clinton saying she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary when he didn't even make his climb till well after she was born? Or Al Gore claiming he invented the internet?

THIS deserves an article? He was cleary marching in support of MLK so to say he was "marching with him" is completely accurate unless of course you try to twist it to mean literally. He could have even said "marched at his side" and been accurate. Looks like all your journalistic "talent" is good for is twisting words but then you ARE part of the MSM so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I'll bet your mother's proud.

This is a ridiculous attempt to smear Romney. His father was a great champion of the Civil Rights movement and to try to ensnare Mitt based on his use of the word "saw" is missing the point entirely of what Mitt was trying to get across.

Hey, Bernstein. Could you possible be a bigger anti-Mormon bigot? It's so obvious that that (along with his politics) is the reason you hate him so much. It's funny the way you journalists come up with rediculous stories and make a big deal out of them to support your hate agenda.

“Romney's claim of him and/or his father having marched with MLK is no different from Bill Cinton's Rosa Parks story”

Don’t forget Bill Clinton’s assertion "I have vivid and painful memories of black churches being burned in my own state when I was a child.", when in fact Arkansas has no records of churches being burned.

The subtext of what is going on here is that Democrats really don’t like Republicans to have credentials when it comes to civil rights. When in fact, the GOP has a very rich history on civil rights and Mitt Romney was correct to point to his father’s. For example, Frederick Douglass was a Republican.

I’m guessing David Bernstein was not really worried about truth or how a politician uses the word “saw” literally or figuratively but that he relished at the chance where he could lessen a Republican’s civil rights record. It’s all just politics.

For all the Mitt apologists on this issue take a hard look at the civil rights movement - or any movement for political and civil rights - and you will see one aspect besides raw power - words matter.

Those who seek to deny liberty to others will use force when they can, then resort to legalisms and words as their weopon to deny liberty and political rights. You can see this of course with the laws passed in parts of the U.S. after emancipation to keep Afican Americans "in their place." These laws were cleverly written so they could be defended as proper, but the intent and selective enforcement of these laws was for one purpose: to deny liberty and rights to Afican Americans.

Words matter. Anybody who has made as many (somehow always self promoting) slippery misstatements as Mitt - who obviously is a master of language skills because his college degree was English Literature - just can not be trusted.

Whether words are used to deny libery to people or deny liberty to truth - it demonstrates a belief that one is superior to others and can operate under a different set of rules than other people. This is a dangerous mindset and can not be trusted and definitely can not be trusted in a position of ultimate power. Look at history.

Shorter GOP trolls: George Romney supported the civil rights movement, therefore Mitt's lies must be true and his campaign's bulls*** must be accepted. Also, anyone who dislikes lying is anti-Mormon.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071222/OPINION/712230301/1027/OPINION01

Romney should not be be next president
Monitor staff
December 22. 2007 3:00PM

Supporting and believing in your candidate doesn’t make someone a troll. Actually what makes someone a troll is calling others trolls ala calling all toasters post.

Regarding Everett Smith’s whole post, not sure what the heck you’re saying. Seems like a bunch of pretty words strung together that don’t make much sense or an argument. Nonetheless, it strikes me that there are no words that you would accept from Mitt or Republicans.

Sioux City Journal 2008 Iowa Caucuses endorsement video

From the Republican field, the Sioux City Journal endorses Mitt Romney.
http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2007/12/22/news_opinion/editorial/6bde369341095fb0862573b8007f98f9.txt

This disinformation campaign mirrors the tactics followed by the Bush administration for the least eight years. Discrediting generals that challenged the cost of the war; the weapons inspectors who asked for more time; NATO allies who refused to support the invasion - the Bush folks tossed out a bunch of bullshit challenging their opponents' motives, and the media ate it up like a starved dog eating table scraps. If you want four more years of lies and deceit, vote Romney.

BTW -- Great job reporting on the latest Romney Fraud. I love to the see a Phoenix scoop get picked up nationally. Keep up the good work.

The only thing I find offensive is this article. This from a McCain supporter!

Talk about your nit picky semantics! Hello Bernstein... Pot, meet kettle.

Romney's lost his bid with this latest gaffe! For people who think this is knit picking just think about how many people were killed, injured and arrested for no reason other than standing up for freedom n justice and marching with a black man these memories can't be tarnished by any self serving politician or serial resume enhancer! Romney owes an apology to American civil rights history and the brave people who wrote it with their words and actions or leave the scene for good!

This recent Romney untruth, although in and of itself not a huge deal, does beg the question: does he EVER tell the truth?

http://occidentalvalues.blogspot.com/2007/12/george-romney-and-martin-luther-king.html


SYNOPSIS:…at least four historical Books about MLK and 1960s politics state that King and Romney did March together...George Romney was a guest at King's funeral along with RFK...as Governor and HUD Secretary Romney was a noted non-black Civil Rights leader of his day...George Romney was recognized along with King and RFK as one of four leaders popular among disadvantaged black youths in a 1967 survey...link below to photograph of MLK and Lenore Romney (Mitt's mother)...link below to photo of Romney being heckled by racist protesters in 1960s for HUD efforts... and most important, George Romney himself, led a march of 10,000 people through Detroit to protest after Bloody Sunday occurred in Selma, Alabama...see below


David S. Bernstein did a shabby and extremely slanted job researching and writing his article Was it All a Dream? which questions Mitt Romney’s assertion that his father, Governor George Romney marched with Martin Luther King, Jr.

Dispensing with the issue of whether a teenage Romney ever actually saw his father marching arm-locked with King, Bernstein and the Phoenix have done an extremely one-sided job by insinuating that it is proven fact that the two never marched together and that Romney recently made up the story out of whole cloth. Either Bernstein failed to do basic research, or ignored the facts he found.

Bernstein's headline reads: “Mitt Romney claims that his father marched with MLK, but the record says otherwise”.

I ask, what record Mr. Bernstein? Where does your article show us one “record” that says Romney and King never marched together? Not having after hours access to libraries or archives, and just using google I have found three books, here, here, and here that state that the two did march together (and that's not counting David Broder's book, written four decades ago which would be number four!)

Unlike Bernstein and the Phoenix, I am not going to make grandiose assertions that a King-Romney march has been scientifically proven to have occurred, and it is evident that some writers have Romney marching on June 23, 1963, whereas others say that he issued a proclamation but avoided that particular March because it was held on his Sabbath. My point is that the whole thrust of Bernstein’s piece is to insinuate that Romney recently made the story up. That is hogwash. Take this extremely biased line: “Nor did Mitt Romney ever previously claim that this took place, until long after his father passed away in 1995 — not even when defending accusations of the Mormon church’s discriminatory past during his 1994 Senate campaign.” Basically, Bernstein is saying that if the story were true, then Romney would have bragged about it in the past. In other words, Bernstein is saying that Romney recently made the up the story to guild his "Faith in America" speech.

But the overwhelming weight of facts show that it is entirely reasonable for Romney to have believed his father did in fact march with King (and—barring proof otherwise, may have actually done so). Allow me to list just a few...I found today:

First, four published books by historians and reporters published long before 2007 say King and Romney marched together (see above). That would generally be good enough for a Presidential campaign to make a historical assertion without being accused of lying; second, Mitt’s older brother Scott Romney says he recalls his father saying he marched with King; third, George Romney himself led a Civil Rights march in Detroit to show solidarity with King after the defining Selma travesty (see here and here); fourth, Coretta Scott King's biography and other books indicate that George Romney, along with RFK, were guests at Martin Luther King's funeral (see here and here); fifth, I have not yet found a photo of George Romney and MLK together, but I did find this one of Mitt's mother, Lenore Romney with MLK; sixth, as HUD Secretary, Romney was a prime mover in making housing affordable for poor blacks (see here). In fact, when Romney sought to open white neighborhoods to blacks, like King before him he was heckled by racist protestors (check out the lower right-hand picture in this article, here); seventh, Romney visited Watts in 1967 (see here); eighth, Romney declared two days of statewide mourning for death of Viola Liuzzo during which time King went on Meet the Press to protest Viola Liuzzo’s murder by the KKK (see here and here); ninth, Coleman Young writes that Michigan blacks reached a Zenith when Romney was governor (see here) and another writer describes George Romney as a Civil Rights Republican (see here). Yet another historian says that Romney “believed that Civil Rights of black Americans, deserved the unwavering support of the Republican party…” (see here); tenth, disadvantaged black youths in a 1967 survey cited Martin Luther King, Jr., Rev. Nicholas Hood, Robert Kennedy and you guessed it...George Romney as their most popular leaders (see here).

I could go on, but my point is that Bernstein is insinuating that Romney is lying and is ignoring a huge amount of information that is easily obtainable on the internet or in a university library. If being a reporter were MY FULL TIME JOB, I would have already flown out to Lansing to see MSU's collection of 50,000 photographs, where (I have a hunch) the Mitt Romney campaign might find a lot more things to brag about. So the fact that Bernstein failed to even check those historical records readily available on the internet beats me!

That a 60 year old Romney (between the ages of 15-21 during King's marching years), familiar with all of the above background information, believes that his dad marched with MLK, is highly understandable. The record shows that his dad MARCHED FOR KING. I think Romney may get the last laugh on this one...

Basically, George Romney was one of the most progressive white leaders of his day. He probably belongs in the ranks of the Kennedy brothers, Everett Dirksen, LBJ and others.

In Sum: If in fact thorough research (which will take some time) shows that either 1) Romney and King did march together or 2)These historians and reporters were citing each other on a mistaken fact as to the June 23, 1963 march, the fact remains that George Romney did indeed lead a march for Civil Rights (whether or not King was with him at the time) and that George Romney was a Civil Rights leader in general and that he marched in solidarity with King in immediate response to Selma—the most defining Civil Rights episode of the era.

Posted by Occidental Values at 12:43 AM

In all actuality, the weight of evidence at this point shows that George Romney did march with Martin Luther King.

"at least four historical Books about MLK and 1960s politics state that King and Romney did March together...George Romney was a guest at King's funeral along with RFK...as Governor and HUD Secretary Romney was a noted non-black Civil Rights leader of his day...George Romney was recognized along with King and RFK as one of four leaders popular among disadvantaged black youths in a 1967 survey...link below to photograph of MLK and Lenore Romney (Mitt's mother)...link below to photo of Romney being heckled by racist protesters in 1960s for HUD efforts... and most important, George Romney himself, led a march of 10,000 people through Detroit to protest after Bloody Sunday occurred in Selma, Alabama"

http://occidentalvalues.blogspot.com/2007/12/george-romney-and-martin-luther-king.html

Of course, it is possible that some people’s memories are wrong and that some history books are also wrong. What’s NOT possible though, is that Mitt made this up. It’s part of our documented history, if Mitt’s wrong, it’s because he took our history at face value. It’s ridiculous for political zealots to look past what Romney was saying about his father and his devotion to the civil rights cause and focus on the idea that there might be some possible misrecollections, and misrecordings of this bit of history. What’s offensive is that people are trying to use Romney’s recollection of his fathers civil rights involvement against him politically.

Sheryl are you serious or are you mocking the Romney's misinformation campaign. I am not sure. If you're mocking him, nice job -- your case for taking Mitt at his word his Colbert-esque. If you're serious, you have a very low opinion of our intelligence.

RE: "Where does your article show us one “record” that says Romney and King never marched together?"

Good point Sheryl. At the very least, Mr. Bernstein should have the checked the National Census figures on who did not march with whom. The government has been keeping these records since the twenties. For instance I just confirmed that my grandfather did not march with FDR in 1937. You should check it out.